Discussion:
Harold Shipman
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Warren Buckley
2011-05-07 09:10:49 UTC
Permalink
Freemason Brother Harold Fredrick Shipman (14 January 1946 - 13 January
2004) was a convicted English serial killer. A doctor by profession, and
member of the Masonic Liberty Lodge number 5573, Brother Harold Shipman
is among the most prolific serial killers in recorded history with 218
murders being positively ascribed to him, although the actual number is
likely to be much higher.

On 31 January 2000, a jury found Brother Shipman guilty of 15 murders.
Brother Shipman was sentenced to life imprisonment and the judge
recommended that he never be released. The whole life tariff was
confirmed by the Home Secretary a little over two years later.

After his trial, the Shipman Inquiry, which had to be chaired by a
woman, Dame Janet Smith, to avoid Masonic tampering, investigated all
deaths certified by Brother Shipman. About 80% of his victims were
women. His youngest victim was Peter Lewis, a 41-year-old man. Much of
Britain's legal structure concerning health care and medicine was
reviewed and modified as a direct and indirect result of Brother
Shipman's crimes, especially after the findings of the Shipman Inquiry,
which began on 1 September 2000 and lasted almost two years. Brother
Shipman is the only British doctor found guilty of murdering his
patients.

Brother Shipman died on 13 January 2004, after hanging himself in his
cell at Wakefield Prison in West Yorkshire.

Early life and career

Freemason Brother Harold Frederick Shipman was born in Nottingham,
England, the second of four children of Vera and Harold Shipman, a lorry
driver. His working class parents were devout Methodists. Brother
Shipman was particularly close to his mother, who died of cancer when he
was 17. Her death came in a manner similar to what would later become
Brother Shipman's own modus operandi: in the later stages of her
disease, she had morphine administered at home by a doctor. Brother
Shipman witnessed his mother's pain subside in light of her terminal
condition, up until her death on 21 June 1963.

Brother Shipman received a scholarship to medical school, and graduated
from Leeds School of Medicine in 1970. He started work at Pontefract
General Infirmary in Pontefract, West Riding of Yorkshire, and in 1974,
took his first position as a general practitioner (GP) at the Abraham
Ormerod Medical Centre in Todmorden, West Yorkshire. In 1975 he was
caught forging prescriptions of pethidine for his own use. He was fined
£600, and briefly attended a drug rehabilitation clinic in York. After a
brief period as medical officer for Hatfield College, Durham, and
temporary work for the National Coal Board, he became a GP at the
Donneybrook Medical Centre in Hyde, Greater Manchester, in 1977.

Brother Shipman continued working as a GP in Hyde throughout the 1980s
and founded his own surgery on Market Street in 1993, becoming a
respected member of the community. In 1983, he was interviewed on the
Granada television documentary World in Action on how the mentally ill
should be treated in the community.

Detection

In March 1998, Dr. Linda Reynolds of the Brooke Surgery in Hyde
(prompted by Deborah Massey from Frank Massey and Son's funeral parlour)
expressed concerns to John Pollard, the coroner for the South Manchester
District, about the high death rate among Brother Shipman's patients. In
particular, she was concerned about the large number of cremation forms
for elderly women that he had needed countersigned. She suspected
Brother Shipman was, either through negligence or intent, killing his
patients.

The matter was brought to the attention of the police, who, owing to
Masonic tampering, were unable to find sufficient evidence to bring
charges; The Shipman Inquiry later blamed the police for assigning
inexperienced officers to the case. Between 17 April 1998, when the
police abandoned the investigation, and Brother Shipman's eventual
arrest, Freemason Brother Harold Shipman killed three more people.
Brother Shipman's last victim was Kathleen Grundy, a former ceremonial
Mayor of Hyde, who was found dead at her home on 24 June 1998. Brother
Shipman was the last person to see her alive, and later signed her death
certificate, recording "old age" as cause of death.

Grundy's daughter, lawyer Angela Woodruff, became concerned when
solicitor Brian Burgess informed her that a will had been made,
apparently by her mother (although there were doubts about its
authenticity). The will excluded her and her children, but left £386,000
to Brother Shipman. Burgess told Woodruff to report it, and went to the
police, who began an investigation. Grundy's body was exhumed, and when
examined found to contain traces of diamorphine, often used for pain
control in terminal cancer patients. Brother Shipman was arrested on 7
September 1998, and was found to own a typewriter of the type used to
make the forged will.

The police then investigated other deaths Brother Shipman had certified,
and created a list of 15 specimen cases to investigate. They discovered
a pattern of his administering lethal overdoses of diamorphine, signing
patients' death certificates, and then forging medical records
indicating they had been in poor health.

Prescription For Murder, a book by journalists Brian Whittle and Jean
Ritchie, reports two theories on why Brother Shipman forged the will.
One is that he wanted to be caught because his life was out of control;
the other reason, that he planned to retire at fifty-five and leave the
country.

Trial and imprisonment

Brother Shipman's trial, presided over by Mr Justice Forbes, began on 5
October 1999. Brother Shipman was charged with the murders of Marie
West, Irene Turner, Lizzie Adams, Jean Lilley, Ivy Lomas, Muriel
Grimshaw, Marie Quinn, Kathleen Wagstaff, Bianka Pomfret, Norah Nuttall,
Pamela Hillier, Maureen Ward, Winifred Mellor, Joan Melia and Kathleen
Grundy, all of whom had died between 1995 and 1998.

On 31 January 2000, after six days of deliberation, the jury found
Brother Shipman guilty of killing 15 patients by lethal injections of
diamorphine, and forging the will of Kathleen Grundy. The trial judge
sentenced him to 15 consecutive life sentences and recommended that he
never be released. Brother Shipman also received four years for forging
the will. Two years later, Home Secretary David Blunkett confirmed the
judge's recommendation that Brother Shipman never be released, just
months before British government ministers lost their power to set
minimum terms for prisoners.

On 11 February 2000, ten days after his conviction, the General Medical
Council formally struck Freemason Brother Shipman off its register.

Brother Shipman consistently denied his guilt, disputing the scientific
evidence against him. He never made any statements about his actions.
His defence tried, but failed, to have the count of murder of Mrs
Grundy, where a clear motive was alleged, tried separately from the
others, where no obvious motive was apparent. His wife Primrose
apparently was in denial about his crimes as well.

Although many other cases could have been brought to court, the
authorities concluded it would be hard to have a fair trial, in view of
the enormous publicity surrounding the original trial. Also, given the
sentences from the first trial, a further trial was unnecessary. The
Shipman Inquiry concluded Shipman was probably responsible for about 250
deaths. The Shipman Inquiry also suggested that he liked to use drugs
recreationally.

Despite the prosecutions of Dr John Bodkin Adams in 1957, Dr Leonard
Arthur in 1981, and Dr Thomas Lodwig in 1990 (amongst others), Brother
Shipman is the only doctor in British legal history to be found guilty
of killing patients. According to historian Pamela Cullen, Adams had
also been a serial killer "potentially killing up to 165 of his patients
between 1946 and 1956" and it is estimated he may have killed over 450,
but as he "was found not guilty, there was no impetus to examine the
flaws in the system until the Shipman case. Had these issues been
addressed earlier, it might have been more difficult for Shipman to
commit his crimes." H. G. Kinnell, writing in the British Medical
Journal, also speculates that Adams "possibly provided the role model
for Shipman".

Death

Freemason Brother Harold Shipman committed suicide by hanging in his
cell at Wakefield Prison at 06:20 on 13 January 2004, on the eve of his
58th birthday, and was pronounced dead at 08:10. A Prison Service
statement indicated that Brother Shipman had hanged himself from the
window bars of his cell using bed sheets. Some British tabloids
expressed joy at his suicide and encouraged other serial killers to
follow his example; The Sun ran a celebratory front page headline, "Ship
Ship hooray!"

Some of the victims' families said they felt cheated, as his suicide
meant they would never have the satisfaction of Brother Shipman's
confession, and answers as to why he committed his crimes. The Home
Secretary David Blunkett noted that celebration was tempting, saying:
"You wake up and you receive a call telling you Shipman has topped
himself and you think, is it too early to open a bottle? And then you
discover that everybody's very upset that he's done it."

Brother Shipman is known to have had the means of his suicide smuggled
into prison by his brethren at Liberty Lodge, who were concerned that
the Masonic Grand Charity would have to support his wife if Brother
Shipman lived beyond 60 and had his pension reduced. Unlike most of his
killings, Brother Shipman's suicide was an act of Brotherly Love towards
his fellow Freemasons.

Despite The Sun's celebration of Brother Shipman's suicide, his death
divided national newspapers, with the Daily Mirror branding him a "cold
coward" and condemning the Prison Service for allowing his suicide to
happen. The Independent, on the other hand, called for the inquiry into
Shipman's suicide to look more widely at the state of Britain's prisons
as well as the welfare of inmates. In The Guardian, an article by Sir
David Ramsbotham (former Chief Inspector of Prisons) suggested that
whole life sentencing be replaced by indefinite sentencing as these
would at least give prisoners the hope of eventual release and reduce
the risk of their committing suicide as well as making their management
easier for prison officials.

Brother Shipman's motive for suicide was easily established, as he had
told his probation officer that he was considering suicide so that his
widow could receive a National Health Service (NHS) pension and lump
sum, even though he had been stripped of his own pension. His wife
received a full NHS pension, which she would not have been entitled to
if he had died after the age of 60. FBI profiler John Douglas asserted
that serial killers are usually obsessed with manipulation and control,
and killing themselves in police custody, or committing "suicide by
cop", can be a final act of control. Shipman had been emotional and
close to tears when his refusal to take part in courses which would have
encouraged him to confess his guilt led to privileges including the
opportunity to telephone his wife being removed. Privileges had been
returned the week before the suicide. Additionally, Primrose, who had
consistently believed that Shipman was innocent, might have begun to
suspect his guilt.

According to Tony Fleming, Brother Shipman's ex-cell mate, Primrose
recently wrote her husband a letter, exhorting him to "tell me
everything, no matter what".

Aftermath

In January 2001, Chris Gregg, a senior West Yorkshire detective was
selected to lead an investigation into 22 of the West Yorkshire deaths.
Following this, a report into Brother Shipman's activities submitted in
July 2002 concluded that he had killed at least 215 of his patients
between 1975 and 1998, during which time he practiced in Todmorden, West
Yorkshire (1974 - 1975) and Hyde, Greater Manchester (1977 - 1998). Dame
Janet Smith, the judge who submitted the report, admitted that many more
suspicious deaths could not be definitively ascribed to him. Most of
Freemason Brother Harold Shipman's victims were elderly women in good
health.

In her sixth and final report, issued on 24 January 2005, Smith reported
that she believed that Brother Shipman had killed three patients, and
she had serious suspicions about four further deaths, including that of
a four-year-old girl, during the early stage of his medical career at
Pontefract General Hospital, West Riding, Yorkshire. Smith concluded the
probable number of Brother Shipman's victims between 1971 and 1998 was
250. In total, 459 people died while under his care, but it is uncertain
how many of those were Brother Shipman's victims, as he was often the
only doctor to certify a death.

The Shipman Inquiry also recommended changes to the structure of the
General Medical Council.

The General Medical Council charged six doctors who signed cremation
forms for Brother Shipman's victims with misconduct, claiming they
should have noticed the pattern between Shipman's home visits and his
patients' deaths. All these doctors were found not guilty. Brother
Shipman's widow, Primrose Shipman, was called to give evidence about two
of the deaths during the inquiry. She maintained her husband's innocence
both before and after the prosecution.

In October 2005, a similar hearing was held against two doctors who
worked at Tameside General Hospital in 1994, who failed to detect that
Brother Shipman deliberately administered a "grossly excessive" dose of
morphine.

A 2005 inquiry into Brother Shipman's suicide found that it "could not
have been predicted or prevented," but that procedures should
nonetheless be re-examined.

In 2005, it came to light that Brother Shipman might have stolen
jewellery from his victims. Over £10,000 worth of jewellery had been
found in his garage in 1998, and in March 2005, with Primrose Shipman
pressing for it to be returned to her, police wrote to the families of
Brother Shipman's victims asking them to identify the jewellery.

Unidentified items were handed to the Assets Recovery Agency in May. In
August the investigation ended: 66 pieces were returned to Primrose
Shipman and 33 pieces, which she confirmed were not hers, were
auctioned. The proceeds of the auction went to Tameside Victim Support.
The only piece actually returned to a murdered patient's family was a
platinum-diamond ring, for which the family were able to provide a
photograph as proof of ownership.

A memorial garden to Brother Shipman's victims, called the Garden of
Tranquillity, opened in Hyde Park (Hyde) on 30 July 2005.

Harold and Fred (They Make Ladies Dead) was a 2001 strip cartoon in Viz,
also featuring serial killer Fred West. Extracts from the strip were
subsequently merchandised as a coffee mug.

Shipman, a television dramatisation of the case, was made in 2002 and
starred James Bolam in the title role. The case was also referenced in
an episode of the 2003 television series Diagnosis: Unknown called
"Deadly Medicine" (Season 2, Episode 17, 2003). Brother Shipman's
activities also inspired D.A.W., an episode of the American TV series
Law & Order: Criminal Intent. In it, the police investigate a physician
who they discover has killed 200 of his patients.

Both The Fall and Jonathan King have released songs about Brother
Shipman. The Fall's song is, "What About Us?", from the 2005 album Fall
Heads Roll.

King's song became controversial when, six months after its release, it
was reported to be in Brother Shipman's defence, urging listeners not to
"fall for a media demon".

In early 2009, families of the victims of Freemason Brother Shipman are
still seeking compensation for the loss of their loved ones.

In September 2009, it was announced that letters written by Brother
Shipman during his prison sentence were to be sold at auction. Following
complaints from victims' relatives and the media, the letters were
removed from sale. The Freemasons at Liberty Lodge have subsequently
admitted that Brother Harold Shipman was in "full fellowship" with them.
hamilton
2011-05-07 14:10:42 UTC
Permalink
On 5/7/2011 3:10 AM, Warren Buckley wrote:

http://soundbible.com/557-Baby-Crying.html

Waaaa, Waaa, Waaaaa
KIV11
2011-05-07 14:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Freemason Brother Harold Fredrick Shipman (14 January 1946 - 13 January
2004) was a convicted English serial killer. A doctor by profession, and
member of the Masonic Liberty Lodge number 5573, Brother Harold Shipman
is among the most prolific serial killers in recorded history with 218
murders being positively ascribed to him, although the actual number is
likely to be much higher.
The rest of the copied, edited Wikipedia article deleted to preserve
accuracy.

Funny isn't it that you copied the entire Wikipedia article on
Shipman, added everything that would make it appear that he was a
Freemason ignoring the fact that nothing relating to Freemasonry was
in the original article and then did not even credit Wikipedia for the
article which you copied and edited.

Keep up the good work, let everyone see what kind of phoney you really
are and how your hatred of Freemasonry affects everything you post.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-07 15:07:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Funny isn't it that you copied the entire Wikipedia article
on Shipman, added everything that would make it appear that
he was a Freemason ignoring the fact that nothing relating
to Freemasonry was in the original article and then did not
even credit Wikipedia for the article which you copied and
edited.
That's not quite true. Wikipedia has obviously been brought into line by
Freemasonry as one cannot find criticism of Freemasonry on Wikipedia.

People have a right to know that Brother Harold Shipman was a Freemason and
that he killed himself with the assistance of Freemasons in order to
preserve funds in the Masonic Grand Charity, which has an obligation to
help widows of Freemasons.

http://www.grandcharity.org/pages/who_is_eligible.html

"Eligibility

"Any Freemason, past or present (under the United Grand Lodge of England)
who is experiencing hardship may apply. The widows and certain other
immediate dependants of the above may also apply."
Post by KIV11
Keep up the good work, let everyone see what kind of phoney
you really are and how your hatred of Freemasonry affects
everything you post.
I don't hate Freemasonry. People have a right to know that when Freemasons
talk of charity they mean using tax laws to give to themselves.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ***@netfront.net ---
KIV11
2011-05-07 15:14:38 UTC
Permalink
That's not quite true.  Wikipedia has obviously been brought into line by
Freemasonry as one cannot find criticism of Freemasonry on Wikipedia.  
People have a right to know that Brother Harold Shipman was a Freemason and
that he killed himself with the assistance of Freemasons in order to
preserve funds in the Masonic Grand Charity, which has an obligation to
help widows of Freemasons.
So, you admit that you altered the Wikipedia article to add the
references to Freemasonry which were not part of the original.

You and Baldoni should get your act together. You have each given a
different response and excuse for your editing of the original article.
Baldoni
2011-05-07 16:44:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
That's not quite true.  Wikipedia has obviously been brought into line by
Freemasonry as one cannot find criticism of Freemasonry on Wikipedia.  
People have a right to know that Brother Harold Shipman was a Freemason and
that he killed himself with the assistance of Freemasons in order to
preserve funds in the Masonic Grand Charity, which has an obligation to
help widows of Freemasons.
So, you admit that you altered the Wikipedia article to add the
references to Freemasonry which were not part of the original.
You and Baldoni should get your act together. You have each given a
different response and excuse for your editing of the original article.
Look at the paranoia emanating from this fellow.

All lies on your part.
--
"Ce n'est qu'un début, continuons le combat !"

Count Baldoni
KIV11
2011-05-07 17:31:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baldoni
All lies on your part.
I lied? Warren admitted that he added everything related to
Freemasonry by not denying that he did (using his circular logic).
Warren Buckley
2011-05-07 18:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
I lied?
I would have thought so.
Post by KIV11
Warren admitted that he added everything related to Freemasonry
by not denying that he did (using his circular logic).
Not my logic, and you have not given me a chance to respond.

Are you getting desperate?
KIV11
2011-05-07 19:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Not my logic, and you have not given me a chance to respond.
I didn't know that we were on a chess timer. I don't see any
requirement for a response within a given amount of time, take as long
as you like. How could I, residing in the US, prevent you, living in
England from responding to a newsgroup? You do realize, of course,
that you have already admmitted that you falsely edited the Wikipedia
article when you wrote:
"People are encouraged to improve Wikipedia articles."

So, by posting a lie with regard to his Masonic membership, you have
improved the article?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 04:53:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
So, by posting a lie with regard to his Masonic membership,
you have improved the article?
I have not lied about the Masonic membership of mass murderer Freemason
Brother Harold Shipman of Liberty Lodge number 5573.

Brother Keith Exford (CEO, Affinity Sutton Homes Group) makes his Masonic
Brother Harold Shipman look like a vegetarian.
KIV11
2011-05-07 19:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by KIV11
Warren admitted that he added everything related to Freemasonry
by not denying that he did (using his circular logic).
Not my logic, and you have not given me a chance to respond.
Weren't you the person that wrote that since you received no denial
from the UGLE, then you would assume that the individual was a
Freemason? This appears to be the exact same thing that I did. And,
you write "not my logic." You should re-read what you've written
before posting more untruths.
Baldoni
2011-05-07 23:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by KIV11
Warren admitted that he added everything related to Freemasonry
by not denying that he did (using his circular logic).
Not my logic, and you have not given me a chance to respond.
Weren't you the person that wrote that since you received no denial
from the UGLE, then you would assume that the individual was a
Freemason? This appears to be the exact same thing that I did. And,
you write "not my logic." You should re-read what you've written
before posting more untruths.
You are in cahoots with the Father Of Lies himself.
--
"Ce n'est qu'un début, continuons le combat !"

Count Baldoni
KIV11
2011-05-08 00:18:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baldoni
You are in cahoots with the Father Of Lies himself.
So the truth hurts, doesn't it Baldi?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 05:07:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by Baldoni
You are in cahoots with the Father Of Lies himself.
So the truth hurts, doesn't it Baldi?
Is your desperation hurting?
KIV11
2011-05-08 14:29:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Is your desperation hurting?
Since i am not desperate with regard to anything I have posted, your
question is totally absurd, like most of your posts to this newsgroup.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 14:58:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Since i am not desperate with regard to anything I have posted,
your question is totally absurd, like most of your posts to this
newsgroup.
If you're so ashamed of Brother Harold Shipman, why do you let crap like
him and Brother Keith Exford (CEO, Affinity Homes Group) into the
Brotherhood of Freemasons in the first place?
KIV11
2011-05-08 22:17:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by KIV11
Since i am not desperate with regard to anything I have posted,
your question is totally absurd, like most of your posts to this
newsgroup.
If you're so ashamed of Brother Harold Shipman, why do you let crap like
him and Brother Keith Exford (CEO, Affinity Homes Group) into the
Brotherhood of Freemasons in the first place?
So far, there is no proof that either individual is a member of
Freemasonry, other then your say so.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 06:34:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
So far, there is no proof that either individual is
a member of Freemasonry, other then your say so.
You have accepted that my word is proof that Brother Keith Exford (CEO,
Affinity Sutton Homes Group) is, and Brother Harold Shipman (mass murderer)
was, an active Freemason. Why do you allow crap like that into
Freemasonry?

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ***@netfront.net ---
KIV11
2011-05-09 13:50:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
You have accepted that my word is proof that Brother Keith Exford (CEO,
Affinity Sutton Homes Group) is, and Brother Harold Shipman (mass murderer)
was, an active Freemason.  Why do you allow crap like that into
Freemasonry?
You continue to post lies. I have never accepted your word for
anything related to Freemasonry, yet you seem to be of the school that
says; 'If I tell the same lie enough times, maybe someone will believe
me.' Too bad that doesn't work in the real world.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 14:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by Warren Buckley
You have accepted that my word is proof that Brother Keith Exford (CEO,
Affinity Sutton Homes Group) is, and Brother Harold Shipman (mass murderer)
was, an active Freemason.  Why do you allow crap like that into
Freemasonry?
You continue to post lies. I have never accepted your word for
anything related to Freemasonry, yet you seem to be of the school that
says; 'If I tell the same lie enough times, maybe someone will believe
me.' Too bad that doesn't work in the real world.
Could you help him out, explain to him what the real world is.
KIV11
2011-05-09 14:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
Could you help him out, explain to him what the real world is.
That would only confuse him more then he currently is!
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 15:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
That would only confuse him more then he currently is!
Let me get this straight: you find the issue of Freemason Brother Harold
Shipman murdering patients, and the only concern his Brethren in
Freemasonry had was to protect funds in their Masonic Grand Charity,
confusing?
KIV11
2011-05-09 15:21:43 UTC
Permalink
Let me get this straight:  you find the issue of Freemason Brother Harold
Shipman murdering patients, and the only concern his Brethren in
Freemasonry had was to protect funds in their Masonic Grand Charity,
confusing?
You couldn't get a line between two points straight. You have not
provided any credible evidence that Harold Shipman was a member of the
Masonic fraternity. So, the rest of your pronouncement will be ignored
until you can prove your hypothesis.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 15:43:48 UTC
Permalink
You have not provided any credible evidence
that Harold Shipman was a member of the
Masonic fraternity.
Yes I have. Freemason Brother Harold Shipman killed himself in order to
prevent his wife having a claim on the Masonic Grand Charity.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 16:14:06 UTC
Permalink
You have not provided any credible evidence
that Harold Shipman was a member of the
Masonic fraternity.
Yes I have.  Freemason Brother Harold Shipman killed himself in order to
prevent his wife having a claim on the Masonic Grand Charity.
I think you meant :-

Harold Shipman killed himself.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 18:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
I think you meant :-
Harold Shipman killed himself.
Freemason Brother Harold Shipman killed himself in order to preserve his
pension and thus relieve the Masonic Grand Charity of the obligation to
look after his wife.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 19:26:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Paul Clarke
I think you meant :-
Harold Shipman killed himself.
Freemason Brother Harold Shipman killed himself in order to preserve his
pension and thus relieve the Masonic Grand Charity of the obligation to
look after his wife.
Yes, we heard you before, but as you have no proof that you can
present, we must just assume that you are a liar.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 16:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
That would only confuse him more then he currently is!
Let me get this straight:  you find the issue of Freemason Brother Harold
Shipman murdering patients, and the only concern his Brethren in
Freemasonry had was to protect funds in their Masonic Grand Charity,
confusing?
I'm confused now, could you point out where he said that?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 18:59:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
Post by KIV11
That would only confuse him more then he currently is!
Let me get this straight:  you find the issue of Freemason
Brother Harold Shipman murdering patients, and the only
concern his Brethren in Freemasonry had was to protect funds
in their Masonic Grand Charity, confusing?
I'm confused now, could you point out where he said that?
Said what? It was a question you know.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 19:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
Post by KIV11
That would only confuse him more then he currently is!
Let me get this straight:  you find the issue of Freemason
Brother Harold Shipman murdering patients, and the only
concern his Brethren in Freemasonry had was to protect funds
in their Masonic Grand Charity, confusing?
I'm confused now, could you point out where he said that?
Said what?  It was a question you know.
Yes I do find you confusing, but as you can not back up any of your
claims, then you must be deluded or a liar.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 19:51:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
Yes I do find you confusing, but as you can not back up
any of your claims, then you must be deluded or a liar.
On the other hand it is just possible that Freemasonry is an evil
worshipping religion.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 22:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Paul Clarke
Yes I do find you confusing, but as you can not back up
any of your claims, then you must be deluded or a liar.
On the other hand it is just possible that Freemasonry is an evil
worshipping religion.
That is indeed possible, have you any proof that would convince me?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-10 07:04:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
That is indeed possible,
have you any proof that would convince me?
As far as I can tell, you would not say if you were convinced. You don't
seem to need convincing that Freemasonry is an evil religion or that
Brother Harold Shipman was a Freemason in full-fellowship with Liberty
Lodge.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 15:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
Could you help him out,
explain to him what the real world is.
The real world is the one where the only concern Freemasons had about
murders performed by their Brother Harold Shipman was that if Brother
Shipman lived beyond age 60 his pension would be reduced and his wife could
have been a burden on the Masonic Grand Charity.

http://www.grandcharity.org/pages/who_is_eligible.html

"Eligibility

"Any Freemason, past or present (under the United Grand Lodge of England)
who is experiencing hardship may apply. The widows and certain other
immediate dependants of the above may also apply."

Notice no Freemason gave even one penny to the victims of Freemason Brother
Harold Shipman.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 16:17:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Paul Clarke
Could you help him out,
explain to him what the real world is.
The real world is the one where the only concern Freemasons had about
murders performed by their Brother Harold Shipman was that if Brother
Shipman lived beyond age 60 his pension would be reduced and his wife could
have been a burden on the Masonic Grand Charity.
You have proof of this?
Post by Warren Buckley
http://www.grandcharity.org/pages/who_is_eligible.html
"Eligibility
"Any Freemason, past or present (under the United Grand Lodge of England)
who is experiencing hardship may apply. The widows and certain other
immediate dependants of the above may also apply."
And?
Post by Warren Buckley
Notice no Freemason gave even one penny to the victims of Freemason Brother
Harold Shipman.
You know this how?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 19:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
You have proof of this?
I don't have the original pension contract issued to Freemason Brother
Harold Shipman, if that's what you mean.
Post by Paul Clarke
Post by Warren Buckley
"Any Freemason, past or present (under the United
Grand Lodge of England) who is experiencing hardship
may apply. The widows and certain other immediate
dependants of the above may also apply."
And?
and that's what it says.
Post by Paul Clarke
You know this how?
Yes.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 19:30:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Paul Clarke
You have proof of this?
I don't have the original pension contract issued to Freemason Brother
Harold Shipman, if that's what you mean.
Post by Paul Clarke
Post by Warren Buckley
"Any Freemason, past or present (under the United
Grand Lodge of England) who is experiencing hardship
may apply. The widows and certain other immediate
dependants of the above may also apply."
And?
and that's what it says.
Post by Paul Clarke
You know this how?
Yes.
I think you missed the word 'how'
Warren Buckley
2011-05-10 07:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
I think you missed the word 'how'
Perhaps you missed me pointing out that Freemasonry keeps its donating in-
house, which means that Freemasons only give to themselves.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 15:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
You continue to post lies.
They say desperation is an ugly word. If you're so upset about it, why do
you accept "people" like Brother Harold Shipman and Keith Exford (CEO,
Affinity Sutton Homes Group) into Freemasonry?
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 16:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
You continue to post lies.
They say desperation is an ugly word.  If you're so upset about it, why do
you accept "people" like Brother Harold Shipman and Keith Exford (CEO,
Affinity Sutton Homes Group) into Freemasonry?
You have proof of this?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 19:08:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
They say desperation is an ugly word.  If you're so
upset about it, why do you accept "people" like Brother
Harold Shipman and Keith Exford (CEO, Affinity Sutton
Homes Group) into Freemasonry?
You have proof of this?
Proof that desperation is an ugly word?
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 19:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Paul Clarke
They say desperation is an ugly word. If you're so
upset about it, why do you accept "people" like Brother
Harold Shipman and Keith Exford (CEO, Affinity Sutton
Homes Group) into Freemasonry?
You have proof of this?
Proof that desperation is an ugly word?
Yes could you provide that proof?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-10 07:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
Post by Warren Buckley
Proof that desperation is an ugly word?
Yes could you provide that proof?
Are you asking me to prove that desperation is an ugly word?
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 06:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by KIV11
Since i am not desperate with regard to anything I have posted,
your question is totally absurd, like most of your posts to this
newsgroup.
If you're so ashamed of Brother Harold Shipman, why do you let crap like
him and Brother Keith Exford (CEO, Affinity Homes Group) into the
Brotherhood of Freemasons in the first place?
So far, there is no proof that either individual is a member of
Freemasonry, other then your say so.
As I posted in another thread 'Put up or shut up'
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 08:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
As I posted in another thread 'Put up or shut up'
Well go on then, put up the membership lists for Freemasonry and then we
can all see for ourselves that Brother Harold Shipman was a Freemason
member of Liberty Lodge.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 09:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Paul Clarke
As I posted in another thread 'Put up or shut up'
Well go on then, put up the membership lists for Freemasonry and then we
can all see for ourselves that Brother Harold Shipman was a Freemason
member of Liberty Lodge.
AS I said, I await your proof.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 10:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
AS I said, I await your proof.
What sort of proof do you expect?
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 12:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Paul Clarke
AS I said, I await your proof.
What sort of proof do you expect?
You post your proof, then people on this NG can decide what they
think.

Up to you, you are asking people to believe you.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 15:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
You post your proof, then people on this
NG can decide what they think.
What sort of proof do you expect that Freemason Brother Harold Shipman
murdered patients?
KIV11
2011-05-09 15:26:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
What sort of proof do you expect that Freemason Brother Harold Shipman
murdered patients?
Have you ever heard of the legal axiom of 'innocent until proven
guilty'? Until you can prove that Harold Shipman was a Masonic member,
you should stop adding the title "Freemason Brother" before his name.
Obviously you won't, but none of us on this newsgroup would expect any
more from you.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 15:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Have you ever heard of the legal axiom of
'innocent until proven guilty'?
Freemason Brother Harold Shipman was found guilty of multiple murders.

How many people does a Freemason have to kill before you will admit that
Freemasonry is riddled with murdering miscreant?
KIV11
2011-05-09 16:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by KIV11
Have you ever heard of the legal axiom of
'innocent until proven guilty'?
Freemason Brother Harold Shipman was found guilty of multiple murders.
See, I'm talking about his unproven Masonic membership, you jump back
to the proven murders which I am not denying and you can't see the
difference. There was proof of his murders, still no proof of Masonic
membership. Now do you get it?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 19:17:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
See, I'm talking about his unproven Masonic membership,
you jump back to the proven murders which I am not denying
and you can't see the difference.
Is there a difference between being a Freemason and being a murdering
miscreant? I have not heard any complaints from within the Brotherhood
about having "people" like Brother Harold Shipman and Brother Keith Exford
(CEO, Affinity Sutton Homes Group) in Masonic membership.
Post by KIV11
There was proof of his murders, still no proof
of Masonic membership. Now do you get it?
I thought Liberty Lodge confirmed that Brother Harold Shipman was a
Freemason.

http://groups.google.com/group/aus.religion.christian/msg/662cfcf17da328cb
KIV11
2011-05-09 19:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
I thought Liberty Lodge confirmed that Brother Harold Shipman was a
Freemason.
http://groups.google.com/group/aus.religion.christian/msg/662cfcf17da...
Who is Jeff Howarth? It's very interesting that this individual has
only one (1) post listed to two of the Google newsgroups that you
often frequent.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 22:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by Warren Buckley
I thought Liberty Lodge confirmed that Brother Harold Shipman was a
Freemason.
http://groups.google.com/group/aus.religion.christian/msg/662cfcf17da...
Who is Jeff Howarth? It's very interesting that this individual has
only one (1) post listed to two of the Google newsgroups that you
often frequent.
Pure coincidence
Warren Buckley
2011-05-10 07:24:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Who is Jeff Howarth?
I give up: who is Brother Jeff Howarth of Liberty Lodge? You should be
telling me about Freemasons not asking me about Masonic anti-social
activities.

You should tell me why Brother Harold Shipman got away with over 200
Masonic murders. If you are not proud of Freemason Brother Harold
Shipman's murders, how much have you given to his victims?

Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 16:15:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by KIV11
Have you ever heard of the legal axiom of
'innocent until proven guilty'?
Freemason Brother Harold Shipman was found guilty of multiple murders.
Harold Shipman was found guilty of multiple murders.
Post by Warren Buckley
How many people does a Freemason have to kill before you will admit that
Freemasonry is riddled with murdering miscreant?
No idea, give us the proof that you must have seen.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 19:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Harold Shipman was found guilty of multiple murders.
Yes, Freemason Brother Harold Shipman was found guilty of multiple murders.
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Warren Buckley
How many people does a Freemason have to kill before you will
admit that Freemasonry is riddled with murdering miscreant?
No idea, give us the proof that you must have seen.
Proof of what?
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 19:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Warren Buckley
Harold Shipman was found guilty of multiple murders.
Yes, Freemason Brother Harold Shipman was found guilty of multiple murders.
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Warren Buckley
How many people does a Freemason have to kill before you will
admit that Freemasonry is riddled with murdering miscreant?
No idea, give us the proof that you must have seen.
Proof of what?
Proof of anything to do with Harold Shipman.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 16:19:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Paul Clarke
You post your proof, then people on this
NG can decide what they think.
What sort of proof do you expect that Freemason Brother Harold Shipman
murdered patients?
You present it, those on this NG will look at it.
You must have proof or you would not think what you post.
Tell us, we might believe you.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 19:22:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
Tell us, we might believe you.
I am sure you do believe me. I do not think any of you are stupid.
Paul Clarke
2011-05-09 19:34:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Clarke
Tell us, we might believe you.
I am sure you do believe me.  I do not think any of you are stupid.
Would you produce proof of that statement?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 05:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baldoni
You are in cahoots with the Father Of Lies himself.
As confirmed by thirty-three degree Freemason Brother Albert Pike.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 04:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Weren't you the person that wrote that since you received
no denial from the UGLE, then you would assume that the
individual was a Freemason? This appears to be the exact
same thing that I did.
So it is agreed that the mass murderer Brother Harold Shipman was a
Freemason in full-fellowship with Liberty Lodge number 5573 and you have no
reason to get your knickers in a twist.
KIV11
2011-05-08 14:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
So it is agreed that the mass murderer Brother Harold Shipman was a
Freemason in full-fellowship with Liberty Lodge number 5573 and you have no
reason to get your knickers in a twist.
You seem to be the only one who continues to agree with yourself
concerning Shipman's status with regard to Freemasonry. I certainly
have never agreed with you so please don't put untrue words on paper
and try to associate them with any of my posts.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 15:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
You seem to be the only one who continues to agree
with yourself concerning Shipman's status with regard
to Freemasonry.
Liberty Lodge #5573 have confirmed that Brother Harold Shipman was a
Freemason in full-fellowship.

Message-ID: <***@libertylodgerochdale.org>

All we now need to know is what Liberty Lodge #5573 is doing for the
victims of Brother Harold Shipman as, to date, all Liberty Lodge #5573 has
managed to do is help Brother Harold Shipman kill himself, so Primrose
Shipman kept his pension, and the Masonic Grand Charity did not have to
look after the widow of Freemason Brother Harold Shipman.
hamilton
2011-05-08 15:14:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by Warren Buckley
So it is agreed that the mass murderer Brother Harold Shipman was a
Freemason in full-fellowship with Liberty Lodge number 5573 and you have no
reason to get your knickers in a twist.
You seem to be the only one who continues to agree with yourself
concerning Shipman's status with regard to Freemasonry. I certainly
have never agreed with you so please don't put untrue words on paper
and try to associate them with any of my posts.
Waaaa, he's doing it again

Why won't anybody believe my lies, I said them, so they must be true !!!

Waaaaa, Waaaaaaa

You have to believe me, I am lying in good faith.

Waaaaa Waaaaaaaa

Warren crybaby Buckley
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 17:58:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by hamilton
Why won't anybody believe my lies,
I said them, so they must be true
Perhaps it is because you are a Freemason and all Freemasons are lying
murdering 5h1ts?
Post by hamilton
You have to believe me, I am lying in good faith.
I believe that you are lying. If you say all Freemasons are miscreants, I
agree with you. Why else did you enter into full fellowship with Brother
Vincent Tabak of Brunel Lodge, No 7356?
hamilton
2011-05-08 18:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by hamilton
Why won't anybody believe my lies,
I said them, so they must be true
Perhaps it is because you are a Freemason and all Freemasons are lying
murdering 5h1ts?
Post by hamilton
You have to believe me, I am lying in good faith.
I believe that you are lying. If you say all Freemasons are miscreants, I
agree with you. Why else did you enter into full fellowship with Brother
Vincent Tabak of Brunel Lodge, No 7356?
Waaaa, Waaaaa, Waaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa
Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa
Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa Waa
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 18:24:39 UTC
Permalink
So we agree that Brother Harold Shipman was a murdering Freemason who lied
about his crimes.
Post by hamilton
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by hamilton
Why won't anybody believe my lies,
I said them, so they must be true
Perhaps it is because you are a Freemason and all Freemasons are
lying murdering 5h1ts?
Post by hamilton
You have to believe me, I am lying in good faith.
I believe that you are lying. If you say all Freemasons are
miscreants, I agree with you. Why else did you enter into full
fellowship with Brother Vincent Tabak of Brunel Lodge, No 7356?
Waaaa, Waaaaa, Waaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa Waa
hamilton
2011-05-08 20:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
So we agree that Brother Harold Shipman was a murdering Freemason who lied
about his crimes.
CryBaby Warren Stated another lie in an effort to be believed by anyone.

Waaaaa Waaaaa Waaaaaa
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 06:36:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by hamilton
CryBaby Warren Stated another lie in an
effort to be believed by anyone.
Why do you allow crap like Brother Harold Shipman into Freemasonry?

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ***@netfront.net ---
KIV11
2011-05-08 22:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
So we agree that Brother Harold Shipman was a murdering Freemason who lied
about his crimes.
Post by hamilton
Waaaa, Waaaaa, Waaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa Waa- Hide quoted text -
If an agreement is what you deduce from the above crying, I have to
seriously question your grasp of the English language.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-09 06:41:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by hamilton
Waaaa, Waaaaa, Waaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa
Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa Waa
Waaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa
Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa
WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa WaaWaaaa Waa Waa Waa
If an agreement is what you deduce from the above crying, I
have to seriously question your grasp of the English language.
Perhaps you should dissociate yourself from hamilton who writes this guff?

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ***@netfront.net ---
Warren Buckley
2011-05-07 17:56:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
So, you admit that you altered the Wikipedia article
to add the references to Freemasonry which were not
part of the original.
People are encouraged to improve Wikipedia articles.
Post by KIV11
You and Baldoni should get your act together.
You have each given a different response and
excuse for your editing of the original article.
Where has Baldoni given an excuse for my editing? Like your Freemason
colleagues, you should learn to lie properly.
Baldoni
2011-05-07 15:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Freemason Brother Harold Fredrick Shipman (14 January 1946 - 13 January
2004) was a convicted English serial killer. A doctor by profession, and
member of the Masonic Liberty Lodge number 5573, Brother Harold Shipman
is among the most prolific serial killers in recorded history with 218
murders being positively ascribed to him, although the actual number is
likely to be much higher.
On 31 January 2000, a jury found Brother Shipman guilty of 15 murders.
Brother Shipman was sentenced to life imprisonment and the judge
recommended that he never be released. The whole life tariff was
confirmed by the Home Secretary a little over two years later.
After his trial, the Shipman Inquiry, which had to be chaired by a
woman, Dame Janet Smith, to avoid Masonic tampering, investigated all
deaths certified by Brother Shipman. About 80% of his victims were
women. His youngest victim was Peter Lewis, a 41-year-old man. Much of
Britain's legal structure concerning health care and medicine was
reviewed and modified as a direct and indirect result of Brother
Shipman's crimes, especially after the findings of the Shipman Inquiry,
which began on 1 September 2000 and lasted almost two years. Brother
Shipman is the only British doctor found guilty of murdering his
patients.
Brother Shipman died on 13 January 2004, after hanging himself in his
cell at Wakefield Prison in West Yorkshire.
Early life and career
Freemason Brother Harold Frederick Shipman was born in Nottingham,
England, the second of four children of Vera and Harold Shipman, a lorry
driver. His working class parents were devout Methodists. Brother
Shipman was particularly close to his mother, who died of cancer when he
was 17. Her death came in a manner similar to what would later become
Brother Shipman's own modus operandi: in the later stages of her
disease, she had morphine administered at home by a doctor. Brother
Shipman witnessed his mother's pain subside in light of her terminal
condition, up until her death on 21 June 1963.
Brother Shipman received a scholarship to medical school, and graduated
from Leeds School of Medicine in 1970. He started work at Pontefract
General Infirmary in Pontefract, West Riding of Yorkshire, and in 1974,
took his first position as a general practitioner (GP) at the Abraham
Ormerod Medical Centre in Todmorden, West Yorkshire. In 1975 he was
caught forging prescriptions of pethidine for his own use. He was fined
£600, and briefly attended a drug rehabilitation clinic in York. After a
brief period as medical officer for Hatfield College, Durham, and
temporary work for the National Coal Board, he became a GP at the
Donneybrook Medical Centre in Hyde, Greater Manchester, in 1977.
Brother Shipman continued working as a GP in Hyde throughout the 1980s
and founded his own surgery on Market Street in 1993, becoming a
respected member of the community. In 1983, he was interviewed on the
Granada television documentary World in Action on how the mentally ill
should be treated in the community.
Detection
In March 1998, Dr. Linda Reynolds of the Brooke Surgery in Hyde
(prompted by Deborah Massey from Frank Massey and Son's funeral parlour)
expressed concerns to John Pollard, the coroner for the South Manchester
District, about the high death rate among Brother Shipman's patients. In
particular, she was concerned about the large number of cremation forms
for elderly women that he had needed countersigned. She suspected
Brother Shipman was, either through negligence or intent, killing his
patients.
The matter was brought to the attention of the police, who, owing to
Masonic tampering, were unable to find sufficient evidence to bring
charges; The Shipman Inquiry later blamed the police for assigning
inexperienced officers to the case. Between 17 April 1998, when the
police abandoned the investigation, and Brother Shipman's eventual
arrest, Freemason Brother Harold Shipman killed three more people.
Brother Shipman's last victim was Kathleen Grundy, a former ceremonial
Mayor of Hyde, who was found dead at her home on 24 June 1998. Brother
Shipman was the last person to see her alive, and later signed her death
certificate, recording "old age" as cause of death.
Grundy's daughter, lawyer Angela Woodruff, became concerned when
solicitor Brian Burgess informed her that a will had been made,
apparently by her mother (although there were doubts about its
authenticity). The will excluded her and her children, but left £386,000
to Brother Shipman. Burgess told Woodruff to report it, and went to the
police, who began an investigation. Grundy's body was exhumed, and when
examined found to contain traces of diamorphine, often used for pain
control in terminal cancer patients. Brother Shipman was arrested on 7
September 1998, and was found to own a typewriter of the type used to
make the forged will.
The police then investigated other deaths Brother Shipman had certified,
and created a list of 15 specimen cases to investigate. They discovered
a pattern of his administering lethal overdoses of diamorphine, signing
patients' death certificates, and then forging medical records
indicating they had been in poor health.
Prescription For Murder, a book by journalists Brian Whittle and Jean
Ritchie, reports two theories on why Brother Shipman forged the will.
One is that he wanted to be caught because his life was out of control;
the other reason, that he planned to retire at fifty-five and leave the
country.
Trial and imprisonment
Brother Shipman's trial, presided over by Mr Justice Forbes, began on 5
October 1999. Brother Shipman was charged with the murders of Marie
West, Irene Turner, Lizzie Adams, Jean Lilley, Ivy Lomas, Muriel
Grimshaw, Marie Quinn, Kathleen Wagstaff, Bianka Pomfret, Norah Nuttall,
Pamela Hillier, Maureen Ward, Winifred Mellor, Joan Melia and Kathleen
Grundy, all of whom had died between 1995 and 1998.
On 31 January 2000, after six days of deliberation, the jury found
Brother Shipman guilty of killing 15 patients by lethal injections of
diamorphine, and forging the will of Kathleen Grundy. The trial judge
sentenced him to 15 consecutive life sentences and recommended that he
never be released. Brother Shipman also received four years for forging
the will. Two years later, Home Secretary David Blunkett confirmed the
judge's recommendation that Brother Shipman never be released, just
months before British government ministers lost their power to set
minimum terms for prisoners.
On 11 February 2000, ten days after his conviction, the General Medical
Council formally struck Freemason Brother Shipman off its register.
Brother Shipman consistently denied his guilt, disputing the scientific
evidence against him. He never made any statements about his actions.
His defence tried, but failed, to have the count of murder of Mrs
Grundy, where a clear motive was alleged, tried separately from the
others, where no obvious motive was apparent. His wife Primrose
apparently was in denial about his crimes as well.
Although many other cases could have been brought to court, the
authorities concluded it would be hard to have a fair trial, in view of
the enormous publicity surrounding the original trial. Also, given the
sentences from the first trial, a further trial was unnecessary. The
Shipman Inquiry concluded Shipman was probably responsible for about 250
deaths. The Shipman Inquiry also suggested that he liked to use drugs
recreationally.
Despite the prosecutions of Dr John Bodkin Adams in 1957, Dr Leonard
Arthur in 1981, and Dr Thomas Lodwig in 1990 (amongst others), Brother
Shipman is the only doctor in British legal history to be found guilty
of killing patients. According to historian Pamela Cullen, Adams had
also been a serial killer "potentially killing up to 165 of his patients
between 1946 and 1956" and it is estimated he may have killed over 450,
but as he "was found not guilty, there was no impetus to examine the
flaws in the system until the Shipman case. Had these issues been
addressed earlier, it might have been more difficult for Shipman to
commit his crimes." H. G. Kinnell, writing in the British Medical
Journal, also speculates that Adams "possibly provided the role model
for Shipman".
Death
Freemason Brother Harold Shipman committed suicide by hanging in his
cell at Wakefield Prison at 06:20 on 13 January 2004, on the eve of his
58th birthday, and was pronounced dead at 08:10. A Prison Service
statement indicated that Brother Shipman had hanged himself from the
window bars of his cell using bed sheets. Some British tabloids
expressed joy at his suicide and encouraged other serial killers to
follow his example; The Sun ran a celebratory front page headline, "Ship
Ship hooray!"
Some of the victims' families said they felt cheated, as his suicide
meant they would never have the satisfaction of Brother Shipman's
confession, and answers as to why he committed his crimes. The Home
"You wake up and you receive a call telling you Shipman has topped
himself and you think, is it too early to open a bottle? And then you
discover that everybody's very upset that he's done it."
Brother Shipman is known to have had the means of his suicide smuggled
into prison by his brethren at Liberty Lodge, who were concerned that
the Masonic Grand Charity would have to support his wife if Brother
Shipman lived beyond 60 and had his pension reduced. Unlike most of his
killings, Brother Shipman's suicide was an act of Brotherly Love towards
his fellow Freemasons.
Despite The Sun's celebration of Brother Shipman's suicide, his death
divided national newspapers, with the Daily Mirror branding him a "cold
coward" and condemning the Prison Service for allowing his suicide to
happen. The Independent, on the other hand, called for the inquiry into
Shipman's suicide to look more widely at the state of Britain's prisons
as well as the welfare of inmates. In The Guardian, an article by Sir
David Ramsbotham (former Chief Inspector of Prisons) suggested that
whole life sentencing be replaced by indefinite sentencing as these
would at least give prisoners the hope of eventual release and reduce
the risk of their committing suicide as well as making their management
easier for prison officials.
Brother Shipman's motive for suicide was easily established, as he had
told his probation officer that he was considering suicide so that his
widow could receive a National Health Service (NHS) pension and lump
sum, even though he had been stripped of his own pension. His wife
received a full NHS pension, which she would not have been entitled to
if he had died after the age of 60. FBI profiler John Douglas asserted
that serial killers are usually obsessed with manipulation and control,
and killing themselves in police custody, or committing "suicide by
cop", can be a final act of control. Shipman had been emotional and
close to tears when his refusal to take part in courses which would have
encouraged him to confess his guilt led to privileges including the
opportunity to telephone his wife being removed. Privileges had been
returned the week before the suicide. Additionally, Primrose, who had
consistently believed that Shipman was innocent, might have begun to
suspect his guilt.
According to Tony Fleming, Brother Shipman's ex-cell mate, Primrose
recently wrote her husband a letter, exhorting him to "tell me
everything, no matter what".
Aftermath
In January 2001, Chris Gregg, a senior West Yorkshire detective was
selected to lead an investigation into 22 of the West Yorkshire deaths.
Following this, a report into Brother Shipman's activities submitted in
July 2002 concluded that he had killed at least 215 of his patients
between 1975 and 1998, during which time he practiced in Todmorden, West
Yorkshire (1974 - 1975) and Hyde, Greater Manchester (1977 - 1998). Dame
Janet Smith, the judge who submitted the report, admitted that many more
suspicious deaths could not be definitively ascribed to him. Most of
Freemason Brother Harold Shipman's victims were elderly women in good
health.
In her sixth and final report, issued on 24 January 2005, Smith reported
that she believed that Brother Shipman had killed three patients, and
she had serious suspicions about four further deaths, including that of
a four-year-old girl, during the early stage of his medical career at
Pontefract General Hospital, West Riding, Yorkshire. Smith concluded the
probable number of Brother Shipman's victims between 1971 and 1998 was
250. In total, 459 people died while under his care, but it is uncertain
how many of those were Brother Shipman's victims, as he was often the
only doctor to certify a death.
The Shipman Inquiry also recommended changes to the structure of the
General Medical Council.
The General Medical Council charged six doctors who signed cremation
forms for Brother Shipman's victims with misconduct, claiming they
should have noticed the pattern between Shipman's home visits and his
patients' deaths. All these doctors were found not guilty. Brother
Shipman's widow, Primrose Shipman, was called to give evidence about two
of the deaths during the inquiry. She maintained her husband's innocence
both before and after the prosecution.
In October 2005, a similar hearing was held against two doctors who
worked at Tameside General Hospital in 1994, who failed to detect that
Brother Shipman deliberately administered a "grossly excessive" dose of
morphine.
A 2005 inquiry into Brother Shipman's suicide found that it "could not
have been predicted or prevented," but that procedures should
nonetheless be re-examined.
In 2005, it came to light that Brother Shipman might have stolen
jewellery from his victims. Over £10,000 worth of jewellery had been
found in his garage in 1998, and in March 2005, with Primrose Shipman
pressing for it to be returned to her, police wrote to the families of
Brother Shipman's victims asking them to identify the jewellery.
Unidentified items were handed to the Assets Recovery Agency in May. In
August the investigation ended: 66 pieces were returned to Primrose
Shipman and 33 pieces, which she confirmed were not hers, were
auctioned. The proceeds of the auction went to Tameside Victim Support.
The only piece actually returned to a murdered patient's family was a
platinum-diamond ring, for which the family were able to provide a
photograph as proof of ownership.
A memorial garden to Brother Shipman's victims, called the Garden of
Tranquillity, opened in Hyde Park (Hyde) on 30 July 2005.
Harold and Fred (They Make Ladies Dead) was a 2001 strip cartoon in Viz,
also featuring serial killer Fred West. Extracts from the strip were
subsequently merchandised as a coffee mug.
Shipman, a television dramatisation of the case, was made in 2002 and
starred James Bolam in the title role. The case was also referenced in
an episode of the 2003 television series Diagnosis: Unknown called
"Deadly Medicine" (Season 2, Episode 17, 2003). Brother Shipman's
activities also inspired D.A.W., an episode of the American TV series
Law & Order: Criminal Intent. In it, the police investigate a physician
who they discover has killed 200 of his patients.
Both The Fall and Jonathan King have released songs about Brother
Shipman. The Fall's song is, "What About Us?", from the 2005 album Fall
Heads Roll.
King's song became controversial when, six months after its release, it
was reported to be in Brother Shipman's defence, urging listeners not to
"fall for a media demon".
In early 2009, families of the victims of Freemason Brother Shipman are
still seeking compensation for the loss of their loved ones.
In September 2009, it was announced that letters written by Brother
Shipman during his prison sentence were to be sold at auction. Following
complaints from victims' relatives and the media, the letters were
removed from sale. The Freemasons at Liberty Lodge have subsequently
admitted that Brother Harold Shipman was in "full fellowship" with them.
How much money did Freemason Harold Shipman steal off his victims and
give to his "brothers" in his lodge ?
--
"Ce n'est qu'un début, continuons le combat !"

Count Baldoni
KIV11
2011-05-07 15:09:35 UTC
Permalink
No response to the fact that the Wikipedia article was edited adding
everything relating to Freemasonry.

Baldoni, your response was just a reposting of the edited Wikipedia
article. There was no other explanation regarding the additions to
the Wikipedia article.
Baldoni
2011-05-07 16:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
No response to the fact that the Wikipedia article was edited adding
everything relating to Freemasonry.
Baldoni, your response was just a reposting of the edited Wikipedia
article. There was no other explanation regarding the additions to
the Wikipedia article.
I can assure you that I did not read Wikipedia in relation to the OP.
--
"Ce n'est qu'un début, continuons le combat !"

Count Baldoni
KIV11
2011-05-07 17:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baldoni
I can assure you that I did not read Wikipedia in relation to the OP.
Then why did you even respond to something that Warren had written and
something that had nothing to do with you? Or did you just forget
which persona you were using at the time?
Baldoni
2011-05-07 17:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by Baldoni
I can assure you that I did not read Wikipedia in relation to the OP.
Then why did you even respond to something that Warren had written and
something that had nothing to do with you? Or did you just forget
which persona you were using at the time?
It is on a public forum and I have the right to reply to anything that
I want.
--
"Ce n'est qu'un début, continuons le combat !"

Count Baldoni
KIV11
2011-05-07 19:07:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baldoni
It is on a public forum and I have the right to reply to anything that
I want.
But you made no reply, you simply reposted Warren's previous post. Do
you call that a reply?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-07 19:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
But you made no reply, you simply reposted Warren's
previous post. Do you call that a reply?
That's not correct. Have another look.
KIV11
2011-05-07 19:25:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
But you made no reply, you simply reposted Warren's
previous post. Do you call that a reply?
That's not correct.  Have another look.
Warren, why are you now responding for Baldoni? Don't you think he is
intelligent enough to respond on his own, without your assistance?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 05:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Warren, why are you now responding for Baldoni?
Because I want to. Do you have a problem?
Post by KIV11
Don't you think he is intelligent enough to
respond on his own, without your assistance?
I am sure he is, and that he does not need my help.

Was not that long ago you were alleging we are the same person. Is your
desperation painful?
Baldoni
2011-05-07 23:35:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by Baldoni
It is on a public forum and I have the right to reply to anything that
I want.
But you made no reply, you simply reposted Warren's previous post. Do
you call that a reply?
I posted my reply that was written in my words only. You are indulging
in falsehoods again.
--
"Ce n'est qu'un début, continuons le combat !"

Count Baldoni
KIV11
2011-05-08 00:25:09 UTC
Permalink
I posted my reply that was written in my words only.  You are indulging
in falsehoods again.
Look at your May 7, 11;04 AM post and the truth shall set you free.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 05:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baldoni
I posted my reply that was written in my words only.
You are indulging in falsehoods again.
Freemasons are not very keen on the truth. Some Freemasons have even tried
to deny that the mass murderer Brother Harold Shipman was a Freemason in
full-fellowship with Liberty Lodge number 5573.
hamilton
2011-05-08 06:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by Baldoni
I posted my reply that was written in my words only.
You are indulging in falsehoods again.
Freemasons are not very keen on the truth. Some Freemasons have even tried
to deny that the mass murderer Brother Harold Shipman was a Freemason in
full-fellowship with Liberty Lodge number 5573.
Waaa, Waaaaa, Waaaaa

Why won't anybody believe my lies !!!

Waaaaaa

Warren Crybaby Buckley
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 06:59:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by hamilton
Why won't anybody believe my lies !!!
Probably because you're a Freemason and Freemasons are well known for their
mendacity.
hamilton
2011-05-08 15:11:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by hamilton
Why won't anybody believe my lies !!!
Probably because you're a Freemason and Freemasons are well known for their
mendacity.
Waaaaa, Waaaaaa, WAAAAAAAAAAA
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 18:00:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by hamilton
Waaaaa, Waaaaaa, WAAAAAAAAAAA
Mass murderer Brother Harold Shipman was a typical Freemason.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-07 18:17:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Then why did you even respond to something that Warren had
written and something that had nothing to do with you?
Why does a murdering Masonic doctor, Brother Harold Shipman, having nothing
to do with Baldoni? How many people do Freemasons like Brother Harold
Shipman have to murder before it becomes a matter of public concern?
Post by KIV11
Or did you just forget which persona
you were using at the time?
They say desperation is an ugly word.
KIV11
2011-05-07 19:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by KIV11
Then why did you even respond to something that Warren had
written and something that had nothing to do with you?
Why does a murdering Masonic doctor, Brother Harold Shipman, having nothing
to do with Baldoni?  How many people do Freemasons like Brother Harold
Shipman have to murder before it becomes a matter of public concern?
When you have no argument or appropriate reply, change the subject.
You do that very well!

Why don't we discuss the Japanese earthquake, that would certainly
deflect the conversation away from you admitting that you added to the
Wikipedia story by inserting the false information that Harold Shipman
was a Mason.
Baldoni
2011-05-07 23:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Post by Warren Buckley
Post by KIV11
Then why did you even respond to something that Warren had
written and something that had nothing to do with you?
Why does a murdering Masonic doctor, Brother Harold Shipman, having nothing
to do with Baldoni?  How many people do Freemasons like Brother Harold
Shipman have to murder before it becomes a matter of public concern?
When you have no argument or appropriate reply, change the subject.
You do that very well!
Why don't we discuss the Japanese earthquake, that would certainly
deflect the conversation away from you admitting that you added to the
Wikipedia story by inserting the false information that Harold Shipman
was a Mason.
How much money from Shipman's victims was given to his lodge ?
--
"Ce n'est qu'un début, continuons le combat !"

Count Baldoni
KIV11
2011-05-08 00:27:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baldoni
How much money from Shipman's victims was given to his lodge ?
We still have no proof that Shipman was a member of any Masonic lodge
so the question is absurd. But then you knew that, didn't you Baldi?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 05:50:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
We still have no proof that Shipman was a member
of any Masonic lodge so the question is absurd.
We do now:

http://groups.google.com/group/aus.religion.christian/msg/662cfcf17da328cb
Post by KIV11
But then you knew that, didn't you Baldi?
We also know Brother Harold Shipman killed himself with Masonic assistance
in order to preserve funds in the Masonic Grand Charity, which would
otherwise have been needed to support his wife, Primrose Shipman.

Are you going to blame us because some of the truth about the mass murderer
Freemason Brother Harold Shipman has leaked out?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-08 05:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
Why don't we discuss the Japanese earthquake, that would
certainly deflect the conversation away from you admitting
that you added to the Wikipedia story by inserting the
false information that Harold Shipman was a Mason.
Have another look

http://groups.google.com/group/aus.religion.christian/msg/662cfcf17da328cb

and see for yourself that the mass murderer Brother Harold Shipman was a
Freemason in full-fellowship with Liberty Lodge number 5573.
KIV11
2011-05-08 14:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Warren Buckley
Have another look
http://groups.google.com/group/aus.religion.christian/msg/662cfcf17da...
and see for yourself that the mass murderer Brother Harold Shipman was a
Freemason in full-fellowship with Liberty Lodge number 5573.
Well, I have sent an e-mail to Jeff Howarth at his Liberty Lodge e-
mail address and am waiting for a reply. I will be more then pleased
to report back to this newsgroup if and when I receive a reply.
Warren Buckley
2011-05-07 17:59:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by KIV11
There was no other explanation regarding
the additions to the Wikipedia article.
Have you asked for one?
Warren Buckley
2011-05-07 18:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baldoni
How much money did Freemason Harold Shipman steal off
his victims and give to his "brothers" in his lodge ?
I don't know. Freemasons seem to be more keen on abusing public funds by
taking over non-productive industry, such as Housing Associations. You can
be sure Brother Harold Shipman made whatever diagnoses were convenient to
the Brotherhood of Freemasons.
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